Re: register true origins (was Re: [libreoffice-users] inserting (exactly) a line before a paragraph using styles)

On 8/7/2012 9:58 AM, Felmon Davis wrote:
> On Tue, 7 Aug 2012, Mirosław Zalewski wrote:
>
> > On 07/08/2012 at 07:37, Felmon Davis <davisf@union.edu> wrote:
> >
> > > perhaps also Miroslav could cite a book or two; don't see what 
> > > difference it makes if the books are in Polish. if Missouri is the 
> > > 'show-me' state, does that require translation into Missourian?
> >
> > Can you, without help of translation software, tell which one is 
> > about register?
>
> no.
>
> > 1. Części książki zawierające informacje o dziele i autorze lub 
> > stanowiące wypowiedź autora związaną z książką.
> > 2. Zgodność padania na siebie wierszy kolumn wydrukowanych po 
> > przeciwnych stronach arkusza.
> > 3. Nawiasy okrągłe stosowane są przez autora danego tekstu do 
> > oznaczania alternatywnych sformułowań tekstu głównego.
> > (They are all excerpts from the same book, "Typografia typowej 
> > książki" by Robert Chwałowski.)
> >
> > It is safer to assume that most of readers here do not understand 
> > Polish. If I write something in language that other people in this 
> > thread do not understand, then this message is not proving anything. 
> > I could as well write recipe for apple pie and other people will be 
> > unable to tell the difference.
>
> I find this an absurd criterion of proof. there are plenty of proofs 
> of things I do not understand, for instance in math physics or fluid 
> dynamics, but that doesn't imply they are not proofs!
>
> to access them I would need yrs of training. to access a text in 
> Polish I need a friend or colleague (or software), a lot easier. or I 
> can just take your word for it.
>
> > The same goes for your quote in German. Let's assume that I do not 
> > know word "register" and think it is not understandable and should be 
> > changed. I read your post, which contain proof in German with "rough 
> > and very abbreviated" translation. How can I be sure that this 
> > translation is accurate? If I do not understand German, I have no 
> > idea what is written there. I must depend solely on your translation.
> >
> > And *you* are trying to convince me! How can I be sure that you are 
> > not lying just to prove your point?
>
> that's pretty cynical. though St Paul wrote that a fellow from Crete 
> told him all Cretans are liars!
>
> > (Personally I hope you do not, but again - this is only assumption 
> > that may be wrong.)
>
> anyone with a little savvy or some friends can check the translation. 
> and it is exceedingly unlikely you would be lying, it is more likely 
> there is confusion about the question. I am quite prepared to take 
> your word and I see no reason to think we are talking about different 
> things.
>
> > If we are trying to convince someone (as in this case), then we must 
> > do our best to provide arguments that are understood. It is crucial 
> > that each side can independently verify accuracy of arguments. 
> > Otherwise, our debate partner will have to believe us. And faith is 
> > not a proof.
>
> understood and agreed. and our interlocutors must sometimes be willing 
> to do a little work if they are uncertain of our veracity or accuracy.

Allow me to interject.  You both make excellent points, but lets soften 
the debate a bit and assume nobody is lying, because that's not the 
issue.  The issue, by way of example is as follows.  The original bible 
to my knowledge, was written in Hebrew.  Someone wanting to read the 
bible would either have to learn Hebrew, or rely on someone else's 
translation of it into one's own native language, in my case English.

Yet, despite the translation there are still millions of people that 
*interpret* that translation differently from each other.  And so, in 
the case of register true, I simply wanted to see for myself that there 
was indeed factual evidence that, that terminology was in fact in use at 
some prior point in time, but more importantly, why those particular 
words were used to mean what I'm told is "aligning baselines".  I wanted 
to be certain in my own mind, that other people were not interpreting 
differently than I might interpret, not because they were lying but 
because everyone sees things a bit differently.

Miloslaw is right, I would greatly prefer to see it in English as I 
don't know Polish, however the argument falls a bit short when he states 
using translation software isn't allowed (my interpretation of his 
comment "without using translation software").

Translation sofware says:
1. the parts of the book containing information about the work and the 
author or collecting personally the author of a book.
2. compliance of the overlapping rows of columns printed on opposite sides.
3. parentheses are applied by the author of the text to determine the 
main alternative wording of the text.

I would guess number 2 is the answer to the question he asked.  Yet, it 
fails to answer my original question which is where do the words 
"register true" come from, and to extend and clarify the question - how 
did register true come to mean "aligning baselines"?

If there were software that used "hot stove" to mean "burn your hands", 
ok I see the connection and I'm satisified without further explanation.  
I don't see the same connection between "register true" and "align 
baselines" and so I'm curious to see how it came to mean that.  I'd be 
somewhat satisfied if I saw in a book somewhere that was describing the 
finer points of typesetting or some such, and it simply stated something 
to the effect of "when they used to set type on the presses built in the 
early 1900's, they would first align the baselines of all the typeface 
thingys, and then say to somebody 'it registers true, you may print 
it'".  OK, now at least I have a sense of how we got from here to there.

To the others that supplied links, thank you I intend to check them out 
but haven't yet done so.




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