Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Basic / Java / Python

Hello Nigel V. and Clocked Modular,

I apologize if this email is not being generated in the right way. It's been a long time since I've 
responded to something in this mailing list. Please let me know if I should be responding via a 
website, etc.

I want to champion Python, but emphasize what Nigel V. is saying. I think that the human resource 
experience coming from LO BASIC and MS Office VBA is far too valuable to jeopardize.

I'm bothering to repeat what Nigel V. wrote because I just got done figuring out how to marshal 
javascript Number types to Uno properties requiring Uno types long and short. I know that isn't 
Python, but it really reminded me of just how mature LO BASIC is...no offense meant to the Rhino 
editor for js. And even LO BASIC and the LO IDE are still a tiny bit rough around the edges.

Perhaps the marketing should be more to the higher-end Python aficionados/as toward the development 
of Python into a drop-in companion side-by-side with BASIC.

--Joshua


________________________________
From: Nigel Verity <nigelverity@hotmail.com>
Sent: Friday, November 26, 2021 3:58 AM
To: Clocked Modular <boudi@clocked.eu>; Marketing <marketing@global.libreoffice.org>
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Basic / Java / Python

Hi Boudi

I can see where you are coming from in championing the use of Python for LO scripting. I imagine 
you would agree that your suggestion is driven by the current popularity of Python and the number 
of programmers who use it at the moment. The problem with programming languages is that they move 
in and out of vogue. Python is pretty much top of the tree at the moment, but it wasn't 10 years 
ago and probably won't be in 10 years time.

When you have an application like LO with a long history - and hopefully a long future ahead - it 
is probably not practical to introduce or deprecate scripting languages every few years. Basic is 
much maligned, unfairly in my view given how powerful the latest variants like VB and Gambas are, 
but it still has a large user base and is easy to learn for anybody with any prior programming 
experience. This is indeed the case with Python. While Basic would certainly not be the first 
choice of many, it is already in place so the advantages of having to make what must be some fairly 
big changes to the LO codebase would need to be considered very carefully.

If LO scripting were currently implemented in something with the opaqueness and complexity of C 
then I would be with you 100% but as it is actually implemented in one easy-to-learn language I 
might struggle to make the case for changing it to another, given the effort required to do so.

I stress I am not a developer for LO, so this is just my take. It must certainly be worth 
escalating for a more definitive view.

Regards

Nige

 LibreOffice - Free and open source office suite: LibreOffice Website<https://www.libreoffice.org>
 Respects your privacy, and gives you back control over your data

________________________________
From: Clocked Modular <boudi@clocked.eu>
Sent: 26 November 2021 08:39
To: Marketing <marketing@global.libreoffice.org>
Subject: [libreoffice-marketing] Basic / Java / Python

Dear all,

Am I wrong when I conclude that Python is widely adopted by the new
programmers crowd?
And if I'm not, is it then not wise to focus more on Python?
I suggest to make Python the standard for LO-scripting. Keep Basic only for
legacy reasons, and define a phaseout timeline. The same for Java.
Maybe that way we can get more involvement in development?
Probably you are already aware of 
https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpypi.org%2Fproject%2Fodfpy%2F&amp;data=04%7C01%7C%7C01dc0d5d916b4fc8cd2608d9b0b85d50%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637735128155142362%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=BZ1AJk0i6HJ1z0tTSbwN6GDd0wb2Ra7AMP3XJYKiu%2FQ%3D&amp;reserved=0
 for
example.

Met vriendelijke groet,
With kind regards,
Boudi van Vlijmen.

*Because email is an old and insecure first generation internet protocol we
will, **in time,  stop** to use email. If you want to contact us and are
not known with us, you can use the web contact form
<https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.google.com%2Fforms%2Fd%2Fe%2F1FAIpQLSeW6oPf3_HhJ6P_ONNCAVy7CJNSmga7WX4ln2CgAxZB6ycfzg%2Fviewform&amp;data=04%7C01%7C%7C01dc0d5d916b4fc8cd2608d9b0b85d50%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637735128155152318%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=YfCsJVl%2Bq5OKKtqBNbuTHOAVPPCNUNtnWNoYb3%2FLf%2Fg%3D&amp;reserved=0>.
If you are known with us you can use our signal account
<https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.signal.org%2F&amp;data=04%7C01%7C%7C01dc0d5d916b4fc8cd2608d9b0b85d50%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637735128155152318%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=oC4HTKA5KHLm90edT4LLP2T%2B%2FnKZ334jxNo6%2BhZaAAs%3D&amp;reserved=0>
 or* RCS
<https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FRich_Communication_Services&amp;data=04%7C01%7C%7C01dc0d5d916b4fc8cd2608d9b0b85d50%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637735128155152318%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=1MBKGsO60RME%2FdyJg4b5sbP%2B%2BrpoH9l1c6QxiRdCIuA%3D&amp;reserved=0>
 *to chat, or we
share a cloud environment.*
===
Omdat e-mail een oud en onveilig internetprotocol van de eerste generatie
is, zullen we op termijn stoppen met het gebruik van e-mail. Als u contact
met ons wilt opnemen en niet bij ons bekend bent, kunt u het
contactformulier
<https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.google.com%2Fforms%2Fd%2Fe%2F1FAIpQLSeW6oPf3_HhJ6P_ONNCAVy7CJNSmga7WX4ln2CgAxZB6ycfzg%2Fviewform&amp;data=04%7C01%7C%7C01dc0d5d916b4fc8cd2608d9b0b85d50%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637735128155152318%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=YfCsJVl%2Bq5OKKtqBNbuTHOAVPPCNUNtnWNoYb3%2FLf%2Fg%3D&amp;reserved=0>
gebruiken. Als u bij ons bekend bent, kunt u ons signal
<https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.signal.org%2F&amp;data=04%7C01%7C%7C01dc0d5d916b4fc8cd2608d9b0b85d50%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637735128155152318%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=oC4HTKA5KHLm90edT4LLP2T%2B%2FnKZ334jxNo6%2BhZaAAs%3D&amp;reserved=0>-account
 of RCS
<https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FRich_Communication_Services&amp;data=04%7C01%7C%7C01dc0d5d916b4fc8cd2608d9b0b85d50%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637735128155152318%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=1MBKGsO60RME%2FdyJg4b5sbP%2B%2BrpoH9l1c6QxiRdCIuA%3D&amp;reserved=0>
 gebruiken om te
chatten, of we delen een uitwisseling omgeving.

--
=============================================
This information is intended
for consignee only.
For address, registrations, privacy and further legal
information please refer to our websites.
© Clocked S.O. B.V. Netherlands

--
To unsubscribe e-mail to: marketing+unsubscribe@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? 
https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.libreoffice.org%2Fget-help%2Fmailing-lists%2Fhow-to-unsubscribe%2F&amp;data=04%7C01%7C%7C01dc0d5d916b4fc8cd2608d9b0b85d50%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637735128155152318%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=wrpUvBcc4T8iLLXN%2FPeXBEEQBpfZJebC3%2BuRkQi6SIw%3D&amp;reserved=0
Posting guidelines + more: 
https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwiki.documentfoundation.org%2FNetiquette&amp;data=04%7C01%7C%7C01dc0d5d916b4fc8cd2608d9b0b85d50%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637735128155152318%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=HVVGoFTfQZ7sz0WI%2B%2BX%2FZfkeMH3y4SiffzfZgom3hL0%3D&amp;reserved=0
List archive: 
https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flistarchives.libreoffice.org%2Fglobal%2Fmarketing%2F&amp;data=04%7C01%7C%7C01dc0d5d916b4fc8cd2608d9b0b85d50%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637735128155152318%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=rYKURCfjG7PBR6wzGtpqe1UBAuiXWU2LL9c%2BdUS6G9c%3D&amp;reserved=0
Privacy Policy: 
https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.documentfoundation.org%2Fprivacy&amp;data=04%7C01%7C%7C01dc0d5d916b4fc8cd2608d9b0b85d50%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637735128155152318%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=bkKkkKlGadlxgztxBaZeiFhNJUBvoxlJKdrbP7JcuUk%3D&amp;reserved=0

--
To unsubscribe e-mail to: marketing+unsubscribe@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/
Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy


-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: marketing+unsubscribe@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/
Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy