[steering-discuss] Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Base record access unacceptably slow

Hi :slight_smile:
We need to attract some devs to this project. Preferably paid devs because
there is a bit of a quagmire trying to work out which patches have which
licences and so which cannot be incorporated into the LGPL and which can. It
needs people that work like devs but also people that like to research like
documenters. Could we get Wikipedia, Google, RedHat, Cannonical and others to
stump up some cash for this? Could TDF itself afford to pay for it? I think we
need a couple of full-time paid researchers and a paid dev to start things
moving. I think those researchers could move into coding or documentation after
even perhaps just 3 - 6 months with any luck. How could we get this going
forwards before the whole Suite falls over due to the 1 app's failures?

Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

Hi Tom,

We need to attract some devs to this project. Preferably paid devs because
there is a bit of a quagmire trying to work out which patches have which
licences and so which cannot be incorporated into the LGPL and which can.

  Ho hum; the legal / ownership angle is not so difficult to sort out;
usually finding & fixing the bugs is more problematic :wink:

  Your suggestion to get lots of companies to fund more developers is a
great one - but can be organisationally problematic. Ultimately I
suggest the most reliable way is to find and/or encourage new developers
to do the work. There is a great spot for someone to love & 'own' base
in the project, it's a responsible role, and we'd really appreciate
someone to do it.

  I think those researchers could move into coding or documentation after
even perhaps just 3 - 6 months with any luck. How could we get this going
forwards before the whole Suite falls over due to the 1 app's failures?

  This is like RMS' amusing 'myth of the starving genius' :slight_smile: If there is
a serious bug that annoys enough people: particularly people that are
able to understand and build databases (which are near being programmers
anyway) - then *surely* if it matters enough, one or other of them will
start to dig into the code to fix it.

  There is no magic bullet here, or other white knights coming to fix
bugs in LibreOffice I'm afraid. If we want it done, we have to do it
ourselves. If you know what a database is, and how to use it, then you
are probable quite able to invest some time in building the latest code
and having a poke at it.

  Sorry,

    Michael.

Hi :slight_smile:
I imagined the different lists would take the discussion in different directions
relevant to their own part of this problem.

I think most of the companies i mentioned already employ devs to work on
projects relevant to those organisations. If they could each give one person
half a week to Base, to collaborate much as volunteers do, then we could get
somewhere other than backwards = which is where we are going right now and have
been for a long time. It's going to need more than just 1 talented person to
sort it out because skills are needed in different directions. Base is a major
blocker to desktop (& small office) Gnu&Linux uptake (ok, games are and
multimedia too but that's outside our scope).

If some of those companies had direct control over half a dev in LibreOffice
then they could offer a very high level of support to clients in the future
especially if the half had an indepth knowledge of Base by then.

I don't think TDF can afford to wait until people get annoyed enough (as RMS
suggests) because it's easier for people to just stay with other products and
the rest of the Suite they come with. A little work and leadership in taking
Base forwards might even attract a lot of volunteers to it instead or runing for
the hills.

Most of the co-operatives i have worked in have paid consultants, part-time
workers, accountants, lawyers and all the rest when and where needed. Many of
the ones that refused to do so folded or got absorbed.

Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

I think most of the companies i mentioned already employ devs to work on
projects relevant to those organisations. If they could each give one person
half a week to Base

  Sure - but if they could each give one person have a week to: improving
the UI, accelerating import, fixing most annoying bugs, creating unit
tests, ... < insert any number of potential problems > - then we could
also make progress.

  However - instead of this, we have people complaining and trying to
tell other people what to do :slight_smile: That actually kills developer time,
because they have to respond to the griping by pointing out the obvious
lack of resources, the way that reality is shaped - and asking people to
be more constructive with their time - by actually getting involved
fixing things.

If some of those companies had direct control over half a dev

  So - if some individuals, who have direct control over their own work
schedule, could sit down and contribute then we'd get a long way too :slight_smile:
right ?

I don't think TDF can afford to wait until people get annoyed enough (as RMS
suggests) because it's easier for people to just stay with other products and
the rest of the Suite they come with. A little work and leadership in taking
Base forwards might even attract a lot of volunteers to it instead or runing for
the hills.

  So - go for it ! you want to win eternal fame & glory, and find
yourself a well paid job hacking base: sign up now - get experienced
with the code, improve it, make noise about your success.

  Failing that - your resourcing concerns belong on a single list: the
discuss list.

Most of the co-operatives i have worked in have paid consultants, part-time
workers, accountants, lawyers and all the rest when and where needed.
Many of the ones that refused to do so folded or got absorbed.

  Fine - so start a co-operative to work on LibreOffice, and fund these
guys to do the work you want to tell them to do, and to meet your
particular priorities. Failing that, do some fund raising yourself to
get an existing bespoke development company (say Lanedo) to do the work
for you.

  All the best,

    Michael.

Hi :slight_smile:
The difference is that
1. those other things basically work
2. people are working on them
3. new people are attracted to work on them

In complete contrast Base apparently has
1. NO-ONE working on it
2. It doesn't work
3. It's horribly complicated

Base is the only app that almost every question can only be solved by getting
stuck into coding or extensively trouble-shooting and regression-testing
dependencies. Problems in other apps tend to be able to be solved by normal
office users that may have no programming skills at all.

It seems that we have 3 possible routes
1. Ignore the problems and watch as Base continues to crumble away and lie to
new users that we have a database program when we really don't.

2. Drop Base and be honest that we don't have an integrated database program.

3. Step-up and manage.

Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

Tom,

You may have misunderstood Michael.
Your 1. will be true if no one's interested in picking up that module.
Your 2. is way too premature :slight_smile: (btw; a very important segment of
LibreOffice power users use PostgreSQL or MySQL and don't use Base,
never used it even when it was first introduced inside OOo; an even
bigger segment don't use a database at all.)
Your 3. is where it seems something does not work :wink: "step up and
manage" doesn't mean anything, imho. We have 37 different priorities to
work on; if there are developers interested in Base, they're welcome.
But you won't force anyone (and TDF does not force anyone) to work on
something it does not want or does not need. However, you might want to
step up and start to raise funds to have developers work on Base. The
doors of opportunity are wide open.

best,
Charles.

Hi :slight_smile:
No-one has picked up that module in the last 11 months. It doesn't look as
though anyone is keen on doing so soon.

Is force the only method you can think of to achieve an objective? I think it's
usually better to find an advantage that a person or organisation might gain
from helping and helping them get excited about that. Also i think it's better
to focus that effort on people that have relevant skills, knowledge or
experience or else on people and organisations that have good resources.

TDF is in a better position to find funding and already has more resources than
I have if it was at all interested in developing Base.

Regards from
Tom :slight_smile: