Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

Hi :)
The docs team is working on translating a Base handbook from German.  It's seems to be approaching 
Base from a different angle from the guide Dan is working on.  If you would like to try translating 
from German to English that would hugely help in at least getting something out there, or 'just' 
proofreading would help!  


I think that in the longer-term the 2 guides will complement each other quite nicely.  One of the 
problems with writing a guide to Base is there are so many different directions and approaches to 
take.  People sometimes join the team and get all keen about writing a guide but doing so by 
starting from scratch and doing things completely differently instead of just helping with the 
current plan.  So, hopefully the handbook will satisfy most of those people and will hopefully show 
that Dan's way is also worth completing.  

A few of us have asked TDF's BoD for a bit of help and they say TDF has higher priorities and is 
unwilling to even give Base it's own mailing list.  TDF has over 100 mailing lists already and the 
BoD say an extra 1 would be too much extra work.  A dedicated Base list would probably be very 
low-traffic but would allow the various isolated individuals (that are currently scattered across 
various lists) to work together more easily and co-ordinate efforts.  

I think most people that are serious about Base use the OpenOffice forums and mailing-lists that 
are dedicated to Base and now that OO has a more secure longer-term and is more willing to work 
with TDF rather than against us it seems the best option to save duplication of effort.  

When Dan (the star) completed his Chapter 1 and posted it onto the wiki
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Publications
there was a sudden resurgence of activity.  One or 2 people worked on translating the French FAQ 
into English and completed the whole of the Base section before work petered out.  (mostly Alex 
(who had probably written the original French Faq!))  
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Faq

So, there is a fair bit to be positive about.  The German handbook was only found a couple of weeks 
ago and already has a chapter or 2 translated with more on the way.  Proof-reading would help!  
Fully translating an entire chapter is quite hard work but just proof-reading someone else's 
translation might help.  Screenshots are also often done separately and there is probably a guide 
on how the doc's team likes them done.  

Regards from
Tom :)  






> ________________________________
> From: Dan Lewis <elderdanlewis@gmail.com>
> To: users@global.libreoffice.org 
> Sent: Thursday, 20 September 2012, 16:10
> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their 
> office products instead
>
> On 09/20/2012 09:10 AM, Pertti Rönnberg wrote:
> > Dan,
> > I feel your point even if hidden. I understand your reaction but what you say is not an 
> > explanation nor a solution - it does not change the fact that the Base's documentation is to 
> > some extend misleading, uncomplete and not congruent with the programmed features. If you are 
> > The Dan that has worked with the docs you have done a good job so far, but it must be finished! 
> > And obviously you cannot do everything alone.
> Yes, I am "The Dan", and progress has been very slow so far without any help. Besides I am no 
> programer nor have I taken any courses in database theory. It has come from searching the Internet 
> for information. I do have an advantage over some people: I have a mathematical background. Why do 
> I do this? It is a challenge to me, and this is the main point. People are much more likely to get 
> things done if they accept a challenge.
> > I personally can not help even if I wanted to: I am no programmer and I do not not know the 
> > inner build-up of nor the relationships between Base's features and finesses.
> > I only am (was!) an user and can only contribute by proposing - and that I have done without 
> > results - as far as I know.
> > I try again:
> > > if you cannot get Base working as a standalone "database" (like MSAccess) then take the Base 
> > > module away from the LibO suite
> > > or replace the old embedded HDBSQL v1.8 with a modern xxxSQL
> HSQLDB 1.8 is not the real problem: it is the OOo chose to embed the database files within the 
> database document file. As a fork, LO has continued it. In fact, I requested that some changes be 
> made a long the line you mention. The reply by a developer was: it is not going to happen. There 
> is the incompatibility problem that could hamper any LO installment containing large number of 
> databases. (How does one change things over?) Meanwhile all of these databases are subject to data 
> loss because they will not make a change over.
> The database files in an embedded database can be extracted to their own folder, add a prefix to 
> each one of them, tell Base what hsqldb.jar file to use, and use the Base Wizard to connect to 
> these files using JDBC. Now the database files serve as the backend, and Base can serve as the 
> front end. This works for either HSQLDB 1.8 that came with LO, or later versions that you download 
> and install on your computer from the HSQLDB website. Some of my databases require using 1.8 and 
> others require using 2.2.8. One of my LO versions uses 1.8 and another uses 2.2.8. (The two 
> versions of hsqldb are incompatible though.
> I have also installed MySQL on my computer and use the MySQL Connector extension 1.0.1. I use Base 
> as a frontend for MySQL.
>
> --Dan
> > > or make Base clearly an front-end (by totally removing the embedded part) and advice users to 
> > > an specific "real" background database (MySQL, SQLite, etc) and give them an easy-to-use and 
> > > really working software&docs for the connecting
> > > reprogram LibO/Base so that a form can be built based on a query (not only on a table) and 
> > > then write/complete docs about how to build forms and subforms manually (no wizard)
> > > borrow the Report Builder from OO and make it (really!) working in LibO -- together with 
> > > working docs about how-to
> > > inform the user how to make a cover page (Mainform) for the database from where to open forms, 
> > > reports, etc
> >
> > That as a beginning.
> > If or when Base works without problems and without bothering that list, I am lazy enough to 
> > start using the rest of the LibO-suite.
> > Best regards
> > Pertti Rönnberg
> >
> >
> > On 20.9.2012 14:37, Dan Lewis wrote:
> > > The reality of documentation is that very few people are willing to help produce it. This is 
> > > true of Base more so than the other components of LO. All of it is done by volunteers. If 
> > > people want better documentation, they need to do something about it. That means personally 
> > > testing various features and document what they find. It also means people stepping forward to 
> > > work with others to make the documentation better by collaborating.
> > >
> > > --Dan
>
> <snip />
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