Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead

Hi Tom,
Thank you for a very informative answer - it is bad that all this is not 
mentioned as a basic info about LibO.
I am prepared to trust it as true but honestly I have to rely on my own 
experiences both regarding Win/MSO and LibO.

I have been using Windows and many of MS programs since early 1980:  all 
of the modules in the MSO suite, Access, Publisher, Visio, Project, etc
>>    never any problems with installing
>>    never need to send any kind of bug reports
>>    never any need to contact any community/list for help
>>    cannot remember not one machine crash when using Windows-MS-programs
>>    no courses, no teachers in using Windows/MS programs -- I had no 
problems to learn all by my self mostly thanks to a good help function;  
when I was working as IT-help/help desk I could even tutor my colleagues 
in Word, Excel, PP, Access how to use the special features and functions
>>    made a lot of Access-dbs, learned to complete them with VBA and 
got macros work

Some /_facts_/ about LibO (first 3.4.5, then 3.4.6 -- I didn't dare to 
install later versions, so now back to OO)
>>    in January this year after downloading LibO I had big 
problems/crashes with getting Base ("similar" to MSAccess) working - 
reason: JRE and bad guidings
>>    some basic features/functions in Base does not work -- no help 
from "LibO help" nor "Base Guide"
>>    I have some rather big (heavy) applications in Calc (several 
sheets, 200 rows&15-30 cols/sheet, remote referenses between sheets) - 
I've noticed (when tracking why results are wrong) that Calc in some 
situations does not have "power" enough to do the automatic recalc 
through all the rows/cols/pages: there is nothing wrong, it just does 
not do the recalc -- which means that I cannot trust the calcs to be 
100% correct;  this is not only inconvenient but can be fatal in 
economical calcs   (my computers do most certainly have all the power 
needed)
>>    the button "LibreOffice Help" does not directly lead to any kind 
of help -- the function is totally of no use until you first learn it's 
logic (if any) -- to find any help can take hours of digging

I should very much like to use LibO only (not only because of costs) but 
cannot afford wasting time and nerves on all the problems.
According to this list there are -- in my opinion -- too many others 
having problems already from the very beginning, with installing.

For me -- I represent the ordinary non-LibO-expert user -- it is obvious 
why not only companies rely on Windows/MSO.
I can not see that this is anything to argue about: LibO must be 
easy-to-use, stable and free from any basic problems if it wants to be 
really accepted.
Note: I am talking about ordinary people and ordinary companies, who 
value their time.
Pertti Rönnberg



On 27.9.2012 17:07, Tom Davies wrote:
> Hi :)
> On the contrary. MS do not fix their problems quickly at all. Even 
> known malware threats remain for months and even years. Their strategy 
> is to blame the users.  A typical one being to tell users they 
> shouldn't be using macros because of the likelihood of getting an 
> infected or corrupted one.  Read "The Emperor’s New Clothes".  People 
> are told that MS Office is the best and so when they find problems 
> with it they tend to blame themselves rather than the software.
>
> For example when using non-MS software someone would quite happily 
> slate the product with this sort of thing "I opened my document and 
> deleted tons of stuff and saved it using the same name.  now when i 
> open the document it has all that stuff missing!  The stupid program 
> can't even find the stuff that i deleted.  No, of course i don't have 
> a back-up of the file before my deletions"
>
> One problem that has never been solved is that when creating an MS 
> document the style keeps randomly changing without the user doing 
> anything noticeable.  So, the language keeps switching to US.  
> Bullet-points and numbering styles keep changing.  So in a bulleted 
> list the points keep changing shape, size and amount they are indented 
> by.  Numbered lists may well miss a few numbers or repeat a few or 
> suddenly change from i), ii) to c), d) or other weirdness.
>
> People have learned to accept all this shoddiness from Word because it 
> happens to so many people.  Really advanced users have learned to 
> re-impose formatting after completing a document or just accept it.
>
> Spelling has gone out the window not just because of the MTV 
> generation but also because MS's spell-checker keeps switching 
> languages back into American (US) so things that are correct are 
> sometimes given a red-wriggle and sometimes blatantly incorrect 
> spellings are not found.
>
>
> LibreOffice tends to stick to the same style throughout, unless the 
> user has deliberately changed styles and is aware of having done so.  
> So, bullet-points line-up and retain the same size. Likewise with 
> numbered lists.
>
>
> Another problem is the way Word can't handle images with much 
> sophistication.  MS produce a different product for people to buy.  
> Publisher.  Most of the functionality of publisher wouldn't be needed 
> if Word wasn't such a Pos.  Writer handles most things that Publisher 
> does with more elegance and sophistication.
>
>
> Another problem is the limited choices when exporting to Pdf.  I often 
> get posters and stuff from Word users that probably looked quite good 
> at their end but the jpg compression has made a mad swirly mess of 
> it.  LibreOffice allows you to set the type of compression and even 
> allows people to create uncompressed Pdfs. Pdfs can be created with 
> various levels of integration with screen-readers for blind-users.  MS 
> Word has limited options.
>
> So, LO already is a far better product in many, many ways but people 
> have learned to accept problems with MS stuff and are even happy when 
> their machine is heavily infected with malware that results from using 
> MS junk.
>
> Just my opinion and doubtless many people, especially the BoD disagree.
> Regards from
> Tom :)
>
>
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     *From:* Pertti Rönnberg <ptjr@elisanet.fi>
>     *To:* users@global.libreoffice.org
>     *Sent:* Thursday, 27 September 2012, 14:04
>     *Subject:* Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people
>     will now start renting their office products instead
>
>     All the best LibO folks,
>     This discussion about calendars etc. may be interesting perhaps
>     also useful -- but back to the basic question!
>     Microsoft is going to change their behavior.
>
>     Let us remember that MS is the absolute market leader -- they
>     can't be totally wrong when having 95% and people accept paying.
>     It is no use blaming MS for success -- it is only waste of energy
>     and expresses your foolishness.  LibO only have to accept it.
>
>     Whether you like it or not MS's programs use to work without
>     remarkable problems - and if such happens MS fixes them rather
>     quickly.
>     That is why people and especially companies seem to be prepaired
>     to pay what ever the cost.
>
>     What I have tried to say is that if LibO wants to get a reasonable
>     share oh this cake -- free of charge or not -- then LibO must
>     offer and also deliver something better than the MS's Office suit
>     it's Access included -- equal is far away from enough.
>
>     Some of you said that ordinary users -- and even more experienced
>     - seldom use more than a 2-5%  of the LibO's (MSO's) features.
>     Why not then identify the 30% of all most used features and make
>     sure that at least these work properly -- Base included.
>
>     If LibO cannot be made at least as stable, free of bugs and easy
>     to use -- and especially it's help function understandable for
>     every new user -- then there is no larger future for LibO except
>     for a small group of idealists and enthusiasts in their own little
>     kindergarten.
>     I see this as a question of defining priorities - and a strategy.
>     If the goal seems clear and clever then then the resources will at
>     least not disappear.
>     Pertti Rönnberg
>
>
>
>     On 27.9.2012 10:08, Gordon Burgess-Parker wrote:
>     > On 26/09/12 12:01, webmaster-Kracked_P_P wrote:
>     >> I have seen listings on Mozilla's archive system for an
>     extension to help with the syncing to a Google account.
>     >>
>     > Don't need any of those for Google Calendar - you can use Caldav
>     which doesn't require any extension at all.
>     >
>     http://support.google.com/calendar/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=99358#sunbird
>
>     >
>     >
>
>
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