Re: [tdf-discuss] using information from OOo lists for LibO marketing? (was: Fwd: [users] Licensing Details)

Thanks, Bernhard, for a reasoned and reasonable reply.  For those who don't want to read all the 
comments, including my replies, I'll reply to the original message on the OOo list, as Drew and 
Andy suggested, with a reference to the Oracle announcement, as Bernhard suggests.

//James

On Apr 22, 2011, at 04:35 , Bernhard Dippold wrote:

> Hi James, all,
>
> <snip>

> About this main question:
>
> I don't know the sender, but in most cases of such mails people are not
> aware of sending their full address and contact details to an public
> mailing list when they write a mail from their office.
>
> If you cite such people you probably do them a favor if you cut this
> information in your reply.
>
> In this case I feel a bit different, as the sender is senior manager of
> an IT company.
>
> So my take is: Yes - the footer doesn't hinder you to reply to his request.

I agree.
> > > > > <snip>


> > > > > He asked a question on the OpenOffice.org users list, not
> > > > > LibreOffice.
>
> Right. So if James replies, he should answer his question on the license
> of OpenOffice.org.
>
> What Drew and Andy don't want to support, is subversive LibreOffice
> marketing against OpenOffice.org.
>
> Even if the rest of the community didn't follow us by now, we don't
> think that OpenOffice.org is a competitor we have to fight against by
> all possible means.

I'm not sure that using information on a public list to suggest that there might be alternatives to 
the option he is suggesting on the public list can be classed as "by all possible means".
> In my eyes it is allowed to inform about LibreOffice while replying to
> the question on OOo license, perhaps linking to the Oracle announcement
> from last Friday: As there might be major modification in OpenOffice.org
> community and product structure, he should keep an eye on what's going
> on in the near future. If this announcement would cause him uncertainty
> about OOo's future, it might be reasonable to have a look at LibreOffice.

That was exactly my thought, although not specified in my comments. He could be going from one 
closed alternative to another when an open system is available.

> We should not compete against each other - especially in a situation
> where none of us know, what will happen to the OOo community. Perhaps we
> get a chance to re-unite: Then competitive marketing might be an issue
> that adds negative feelings we should avoid.

If this became the case, I would suggest that it was because Oracle dropped OOo, in which case OOo 
is joining LibO not some kind of merge.
> Competitive marketing is not the way to go for LibreOffice: Italo
> Vignoli, our marketing spokesperson, mentioned this point in several
> mails on various lists: We stand *for* our community and our product and
> not *against* others.

This is the strongest argument and the one I needed.

> > > > > To forward such a message here was wrong

I have to say BS here.  The information is already public, and likely to be seen by many/most on 
the LibO "discuss" list.
> I agree, but this doesn't mean that this topic is wrong on our discuss list.
>
> You might have asked your question without copying the OP mail - and
> have chosen a more descriptive subject ;-)
>
> Matter of opinion - see above.

> But this is not the way I think is the official position of the
> LibreOffice community.
>
> Even if they decided not to follow our way by one or another reason,
> these are the people we worked with for several years - and we liked
> working together.
>
> Florian was very sad that he had to resign from his OOo Marketing Lead
> post - and so did the former OOo Community Council members here in the
> SC as well as many others.

Not valid reasons.

> Tolerance is important - for different opinions as well as for working
> in two communities.
>
> But that's just my personal opinion...
> > > > > [...]
> > >
> > > If James truly believes it is appropriate to respond to a query of
> > > this nature, made on the OpenOffice.org mailing list, with a
> > > recommendation to use a different application then he should (must)
> > > be willing to do so in the open, on that mailing list.
>
> It's just a gut feeling, but this seems to be more honest than a private
> mail.
>
> A mail to the users list will have to be phrased in a way telling just
> the facts about LibreOffice without doing any harm to OOo. A private
> mail could be considered as bad marketing for us, because LibreOffice
> stands for openness and transparency.

I agree.

> <snip

> In my eyes this is totally different: While Microsoft tried to turn the EU position back to 
> proprietary licensed software lock-in, you got notice of someone willing to switch from Microsoft 
> to OSS software.
>
> And as OpenOffice.org is not (or not only) our competitor, their mailing lists are not just an 
> arbitrary public list.

I disagree.

> It's good for us, if companies help others to switch from MS to OOo, because
>
> - there is too less infrastructure (with professional support) and documentation on migrating to 
> LibreOffice.
>
> - as we will prove to be better than OOo with our releases to come, people will think about 
> switching from OOo to LibreOffice sooner or later.
>
> - such a change will be much easier than the previous one (and might already come true when they 
> try to import some VBA macros during the first process).
>
>
> > I will wait (nearly) 24 hours for someone from the top
> > of TDF to tell me no, and if that doesn't come, I will contact the
> > poster offline.  The time now is 00:09, so TDF has until midnight
> > today.
>
> If you want a reaction by the SC, you should send a request to the SC-discuss list. Then they 
> will have a look at it and probably discuss it during their next call.
>
> But at the moment all the volunteer(!) SC members have much more and much more important tasks to 
> solve than you mailing someone you got notice via a OOo mailing list.

I think they - or at least the marketing man - should be interested in a marketing policy question.
> Sorry, but this ultimatum looks quite arrogant to me.

Looking at it again now, I can see how you would think so, and I'm sorry.  It was not intended as 
such.  It was intended to give TPTB a chance to take a look at the issue.
> I feel at the center of TDF, and I spent quite a lot of time to reply to your mail - mainly to 
> help the SC members to concentrate on their work.
>
> If I was able to tell you a bit more about the special relationship between the LibreOffice and 
> OpenOffice.org community, the time has not been spent in vain.

You did.  Thank you.

//James

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