Re: [libreoffice-design] applications versus objects

Hi Thorsten, Mike, *

The question of unifying the different sub-applications reducing the 
number of different icons on the desktop and in the start menu has been 
raised a few times already in OOo - I did last year.

Thorsten Wilms schrieb:
> On 01/28/2011 09:17 AM, Mike Houben wrote:
>
> > yes I read it all and I'm fully with you. But what you are proposing here
> > is not a Design choice it's a general choice and should be on the discuss
> > Mailinglist from libreoffice. discuss@documentfoundation.org
>
> Of course it is a design choice. It should be motivated by UX design
> considerations, but would have consequences to deep down within the code.

You're right - fully in the first aspect, partially in the second:

1. Our users are the people we have to look at for questions like that:
Do they need the different icons? Would it affect their workflow in a 
negative way if we don't give access to the sub-application icons?

Neither the Design Team nor the community members and interested people 
on the discuss-list are representative for our users, so we all can 
provide our personal opinion with the only effect, that there might or 
might not be people out there following our ideas.

That's the reason why such questions have to be explored by UX experts, 
with surveys and other means - leading to a conclusion about our users.
Sometimes user's behavior is predictable, leading to good results 
without new surveys and questionnaires.

But it's is the UX team who collects these data and provides it to the 
community. So here is the right place at the moment - when the team has 
come to a conclusion, this would be the time to present it to the entire 
community.

2. LibreOffice sub-application icons don't do anything else but linking 
to the central main application with the additional information to open 
a new file in the selected document format. This part is not modular a all.

Inside one application you can add a new instance of another document 
(as OLE-object, IIRC)- for example a Draw file in Writer. Switching the 
focus from the Writer to the Draw file changes all the menus to Draw, if 
you are ready with this part of the work, just click on the Writer area 
and you're back in Writer.

So the main part might be easy: Just replace the visible borders of the 
OLE-object by small lines representing different areas.

But the problems will come with the details:

What's about menu adaption if you enter different areas?

What's the right file extension for this combined version?

Can this be done without confusing the user?

What are the benefits and drawbacks of the central document?

Only if these questions (and probably several others) will be solved, we 
could move to the discuss list to involve the entire community.

In principle Mike is right: This is one of the central topics that need 
to be presented to all of us. But the necessary information about this 
topic should be collected beforehand - avoiding discussion on parts of 
the question (or totally unrelated discussions) rather to support the 
result collected by the UX experts.
> The discuss list ... where I had to unsubscribe because the sheer volume
> is unbearable, especially considering the signal/noise ratio. Open
> collaboration is such a nice concept, but I see again and again that
> wide open places where everyone talks lead to nothing but piles of
> words. What counts in the end is the work done, and the people who
> actually do it can't have the time to read a gazillion emails.

That's a problem for me too - but despite it hinders me from working 
more "productively", I think it is important to keep this contact, try 
to improve the signal/noise ratio on the list and reply to some 
questions even if they have been posted several times before.

These users are the potential new contributors - we need to show them 
their way through our "Jungle" and invite them to have a look at the 
different teams.

Best regards

Bernhard

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