Re: [libreoffice-design] They need graphic material, WE NEED A MOTIF!

Hi Christoph, Design!

I'll respond to Christoph's Email below, but generally, lack of time has 
prevented work on the motif until now, quite understandable.
While I have some time free I will be using it to "lead the charge" on 
the Design of a motif in 1 week.
*That will start tomorrow (Monday 21st February).* I just wanted to give 
everyone a heads-up if they want to contribute.
Over the next 2 days we will discuss this matter here on this thread and 
I will collate opinions on a wiki page.

Thank you Paulo, Rob, Tobias, Daniel and Rick for the support so far (by 
the way guys, if you're interested in helping -even down the track- it'd 
be great to see you on the Design team member list so we can start 
getting to know each other; http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Team).
But just to keep this discussion on track, the website mock-up was just 
to emphasise the power of using 1 "corner". It wasn't really a Design 
proposal for the website because that is not likely to be re-designed 
for some time, we can plan for it of course, but working on redesign 
right now is probably not a good idea.

Just wanted to draw focus back on the Motif;
- This will be undertaken in parallel with current "fund-raising" activities
- I will coordinate efforts, but will have no "decision-making" power 
(read end of Email)
- We will be *done by the end of the week*
- EVERYONE is welcome to take part

-Nik


On 2/20/2011 11:39 AM, Christoph Noack wrote:
> So what is the problem at the moment? The material that gets created
> varies ... everyone in the community (you mentioned the CDs, banners,
> leaflets) adds his own personal style / interpretation. It's hard to
> take care of that, even for the "reference material" (a.k.a. what we can
> create for the others) it's hard to keep track.
Let's be realistic: I don't think having a Design motif will "fix" this 
problem. I think having a Design motif will "improve" this problem.
> Why? Because - looking at the requests during the last weeks - many of
> the requests are still unanswered. Many of us are busy - you, Ivan,
> Bernhard to just name a few people who have a higher workload at the
> moment (independent from LibreOffice). So even if we decide on a common
> motif, it's likely that we are not able to incorporate it. Thus, the
> community takes care ... and is less strict with regard to the visual
> quality (in terms of design language).
I will respectfully disagree on this point. If we have a Design motif, 
we won't /have/ to "answer" the outstanding requests: we will empower 
the community to do it themselves in a manner more consistent to the way 
we would do it if we had the time. Having it as a basis will prevent 
many community members thinking about creating a new Design from 
scratch. I think this currently happens because there is a lack of 
graphic resources for people to use if they have to make, for example, a 
CD label. But with an easily available motif, we would be addressing 
that shortage.

And I don't think its a matter of restriction, its a matter of 
facilitation. It will help US as much as the community...
Imagine we are asked to make business cards tomorrow, urgently;
- We will use the logo, that is the one fixed element
- The rest is up to the Designer really, they will probably use the 
"borders" from the icons because that is consistent with all the Designs 
so far, but realistically, what good are borders on a business card? 
especially when bleed is so crucial.
- They might use the vignette, but radial gradients "band" on poor printers
- They might use a corner, that would be nice, but overall the card 
would look bland and unexciting.

Having a Design motif (or a few variations of one style) would give us 
immediately an additional resource to use when tackling every new Design 
task.
It will also mean that every task will look more consistent than if 
there were no recurring motif.
> So my question is: If we can take care of such decisions within the next
> days, I'm totally happy. But on the other hand, we really have to move
> on and show that we are productive ... now. I'm surely not exaggerating
> if I say "urgent" concerning the funding elements means we've "missed
> some deadlines" already.
Believe me, I understand the fund-raising is the priority, I will be 
working on that in parallel.
I don't mean to take effort away from this exercise, I just think it is 
unrealistic to think that we will get a "quiet moment" in the near 
future that would be a more appropriate time to create a motif. And 
every job that goes out in the mean time will just look like a document 
icon, even though an icon is not the appropriate message in that context.
> So I still wonder whether an improved "motif" helps, or a more focused
> work on the open items - even if it results in slight variation of the
> outcome. (I know, it is an "chicken-and-egg problem" - if we know how to
> do things, they can be achieved much faster, but we have to achieve some
> things now...).
I see it slightly differently, I think it is futile working on the "open 
items" when we don't have the right tools to work on them.
The logo is one tool, the colour palette is another, so is the clipped 
corner. Between the three of them, you will have a pretty unexciting Design.
A motif is the tool that is missing, and it is the tool that will make 
every job afterwards, easier to start.

> My personal take would be to invest 50% of the available time to work
> on / improve the open issues. The remaining time, my very personal
> opinion, are spend wisely by working on the motif improvements. But, we
> need somebody who can guide / manages this effort ... is this something
> you might want to do (I totally trust you). Of course, all the others
> should join here.
That, would be me. I think it would be a very productive way to 
contribute during this limited free time I've been granted.
> By the way, maybe I missed that, how does this relate (to you) to the
> community branding we've talked about earlier?
The community branding, in my opinion, will take NOTHING from this 
motif, or logo, or anything else.
The community needs to start with a clean slate and do the branding 
properly from the ground up.
Let there be no restrictions placed on them and, though it will take 
courage on the part of LibO, trust that a re-imagined community branding 
will create exactly the kind of excitement and feeling of participation 
that every Open-Source project should endeavour to create.

I'll leave it in your hands to decide when that is, but when it does 
come around, I think we should expect radical change.
Is this going to confuse some users? yes probably, change does that. But 
don't be blinded by tunnel-vision, we need to look to the future.
The future will be brightest when the identity of this software is in 
the hands of the community.
Otherwise, I have to question, why are we contributing at all? If this 
is an open-source initiative, the identity should be community-determined.
That sounds logical right?

> Am Sonntag, den 20.02.2011, 01:40 +1100 schrieb Nik:
> > I would really appreciate if some of the Design leadership (Bernhard,
> > Christoph, Ivan) commented on whether they thought this plan is
> > feasible. Or updated it with times that are more appropriate.
> Hehe, nice to read the term "leadership" - but I don't know whether this
> is really appropriate. Maybe some experience when working in the
> community and with devs. So without thinking about the given times, I've
> shared my current perception of the situation.
This is one of the things I wanted to raise. The website team went 
through many tribulations, but they did so in order to self-organise and 
so that they had a clear sense of leadership. I admire that, even if 
some of the members approached it with disrespect to the SC. I think 
this team, without getting buried in politics, should elect a 
leadership. It will be easier for us, I think most people already know 
who to turn to for guidance?

Design-by-community doesn't work, everyone knows this. We need two 
(preferably three, so that every decision has a majority-vote) people 
who make the choices before our stuff goes out. Otherwise every major 
task will take forever. They have to be experienced, knowledgeable and 
trusted in Open-Source. They have to be people who've given the most of 
anyone subscribed on this list, to this project.

To me it's obvious, in another Email to come shortly, I'll formally 
propose that Bernhard DIPPOLD, Christoph NOACK and Ivan MISKOVIC be 
elected as the Team leads.
That can wait until after the Fund-raising yes? But in the mean time, 
now that I'm spear-heading the Motif creation task, I'm insisting that 
the final Motif (and variations) will be judged by the 3 aforementioned 
members on 25th February 2011. I'm not so much "asking" as "demanding" 
actually =)

*So the schedule looks like this:*
Brainstorm ideas: Monday 21st Feb - Tuesday 22nd Feb.
Design vectors: Wednesday 23rd Feb - Thursday 24th Feb.
Decision: Friday 25th Feb.
Revisions: Saturday 26th Feb.
Finalised: Sunday 27th Feb.

I'll send another Email to the Design list tomorrow (whoops, today, for 
me) clarifying details and asking for ideas.
The wheels, they are a turning.

-Nik

P.S. WHY ARE MY EMAILS SO LONG!?! Research students are supposed to be 
CONCISE >=[

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